The Tangipahoa School Board is beginning its search for a new superintendent, but it might not want an educator to fill the position.
It is asking the state BESE board to grant an exemption to its policy that public school superintendents be certified educators.
Would the school board be doing the right thing by hiring a non-educator, or should it follow the rules?
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No, Tangipahoa Parish needs an educator/manager as superintendent.
I know the Tangipahoa school board needs someone, anyone to address the issues, and I don't care who they are as long as they do their job right. They need to be willing, and able to address the obvious as well as parent and student concerns. I also think that Loranger Elementary needs a new principal, one who can form a non-biased opinion of their students, and has ideas other than medication as a solution for simple problems.
The superintendent is the position where "the buck stops." If Tangipahoa Parish School System students are to show academic progress, there MUST be equal amounts of accountability at ALL levels: central office educational administrators, principals, teachers, parents, and students. The school system cannot do it ALL! Students AND parents must be held accountable for the child's success. ACADEMICS must come first before extracurricular activities, sports practice, etc. which leave the child too tired to study and complete assignments. Therefore, the superintendent is only one person in the chain of accountability and does not need to be and educator. However, I personally prefer the person who fills the position to be the best educational leader that can be found!!! This includes hiring from outside the parish.
As a former educator within the Tangipahoa Parish School System, I have witnessed the lack of connection that past and present superintendents and supervisors have had with the realities of day-to-day school life. The administrators have been out of the classroom for so long that they have forgotten about the basics. They come up with these grandiose ideas and implement policies that only serve to impede the teaching and learning process.
Sure, Mr. Joseph and supervisors will say that they spend as much time in the schools as their jobs will allow, but a brief visit doesn’t even provide them with a good “snap-shot” of what goes on each day. If these administrators really wanted to gain a greater understanding of what needs to be done, I challenge them to spend a week TEACHING in the school of their choice! I know that they will offer up all sorts of excuses as to why they can’t do it, but that is what NEEDS to be done. (This challenge goes out to ALL elected officials in the United States!!!)
The next superintendent, regardless of their educational background, needs to be someone who will be “in” the schools. Someone who will not be afraid to go into the trenches and witness firsthand what is needed by both the teachers and the students! The faculty, staff, administrators, and students at the schools will only show you and tell you what they think you want to hear if you come for a brief visit or solicit “honest” feedback. It’s the old adage: “You don’t rock the boat, especially when you’re standing in it.”
The best analogy I can think of is something I experienced last year in the days following Hurricane Katrina. I had pulled out the old “rabbit ears” antenna and was trying to adjust the picture on the television. However, I couldn’t adjust the antenna and see the picture at the same time. I had to rely on the other people in the room who could see the picture and tell me when the picture got better or worse. Occasionally, I would stop and take a quick look for myself, but that only gave me a quick glimpse of either “snow” or a semi-decent picture. I struggled with this for over half an hour without achieving any kind of results. However, once I moved the antenna to a location where I could adjust it and see the picture at the same time, I was able to get a nice clear picture in no time at all.
So, Mr. Joseph, Mr. Kolwe, Mr. Bellavia, or whomever is going to be the next superintendent, remember that the input of your troops on the ground is vital, but there’s nothing quite as good as experiencing things for yourself. You can’t adjust the picture on the screen unless you can see with your own eyes what’s going on with each move of the antenna.
The school system has had several "educator" superintendents and look where it has gotten them. I don't think it matters whether the superintendent is an educator as long as he has solid educators to rely on underneath him to guide curriculum and programs.
It seems to me that Tangi school system needs a total overhaul on many issues. Not just a new superintendent, or whether they are an educator or a manage. They need to have compassion, empathy, and respect for the children they are in charge of.
This needs to be taught starting with the PHS administration, all the way up to the school board, and superintendent.
When a principle of a school can treat a straight "A" student with NO past behavior problems in any of the schools, with total lack of respect by publicly embararsement, terrible lies, accusations, obscene name calling, ect. in my estimation this is a criminal act, and this person has NO right to be anywhere near any child. This is totally unacceptable. And when this principle, and her so called secretary "LIES" about this student, and nobody in the top levels will even listen to the parents and students complaints, there is something very wrong here. It seems like their motto is to "Pass the buck". No help in any matter. No return calls, and nobody who will even lisen to your concerns.
I have had to pull two of my children out of PHS high school because of the way they treat the students there. Once of them had a type of nervous breakdown because of the trauma the principle and her secretary caused her. The so called displinarian is also a total joke Thinks he rules the place. But from what I have heard, he can not even handle his own step children. Especially his own son.
One of my kids had to seek medical attention to help them through the horrible, disrespectful way they were treated by this school administraion.
I of course finished their education at home, and the procceded to have them aquire their GED. Both of my kids obtained their GED on the first try, with no work or help needed from the GED facility. Both gradu before they would of graduated from PHS, and are now attending college with straight A's. NO THANKS to PHS, and the Tangiphoa parish school board.
I seriously thought of bringing the whole bunch of, in my estimation, "so called" educators and top level administration to civl, and criminal court over some of the issues that were submitted to my children, but decided it would hurt my kids more than it was worth. I even obtained a local attorney regarding these issues, and also talked to another attorney who is a personal friend about this, and was told I had a darn good case. But after the mental anguish they had to endure at PHS, my husband and I decided not to proceed because my kids health was of course more important. We also discussed this with one of my childrens MD about this, and they agreed that it would hurt this one child especially even more. Was advised to let it go for their sakes by the MD.
I know that no matter what, none of my grandchildren will EVER step foot into a Tangipahoa parish school. We will move out of state first, where kids are treated with respect, or I will home school them.
They deserve an education like like where we are originally from. Students were taught and received respect there. They had wonderful eductiion and wonderful memories. I HATE how I had to uproot my kids and bring them here to this horrible school system. If it wasn't for a family illness, they would of never of moved here!.
Kids deserve respect also!! Not just rules and a bullying administration with their threats and verbal and mental abuse.
A lesson to all Tangi teachers who are reading this. You so call demand respect out of the students, but don't you have to earn it also??? Think about it next time you treat one of your students the way many of the school personel have treated many students in the past. I am not saying all the teachers are bad there because they are not all bad apples. But the majority of the teachers and administration that my family delt with where a horrible nightmare.
Thank God for the few good ones!! And of course they know who they are. Because of the few who did possess kindness, at least my children will have a very small amount of fond memories of them to hold on to in their future when they look back on the school years.
I am not the only parent that has gone through this. Check with the local GED office if you don't believe me. I was told by them also, that they heard the same story from many, many other parents also.
I spoke to several other parents who also pulled their children out of PHS becaue of the way their child or children were treated, and they were also interested in proceeding in a law suit at that time. I believe one or two of them might of even filed, but I am not positive on that. We moved on with our lives ot put this nightmare out of the way, and lost contact with their intentions.
I feel like it is such a shame when a students school years is supposed to be the happiest time of their lives. But at PHS, it boils down to a facility with an administrtion that has a power stuggle, and gets kicks out of being so hateful towards students. No wonder the drop out rate is as high as it is at PHS. I know for sure of two students alone that were pulled out by their parents within a month of each other for the same treatment. Very very sad!
Tangipahoa parish school system, as I said needs a complete overhaul. Maybe a new Superintendent is the first step. Maybe classes for teachers and administration on empathy, caring, love, and earning of respect for students yearly will help. I just don't know All I do know is my kids are safe now, and I pray that someday someone will wake up and do something before any more children get hurt for life because of their behavior.
As a former teacher in Tangi Parish, I can guarantee all readers this is a game of politics. Here's the way it will pan out- the rules are being changed to suit the future superintendent, who will be Mr. Kolwe, who is currently asst. supt. and in charge of finance. The rules are being changed because he has NO degree in education/nor any experience teaching. However, the "board" is rooting for him and I assure you, the rules will be changed to suit him. In this school system, they always are. How can we expect BESE and Mr. President to REQUIRE school teachers to be "highly qualified" when our superintendent does not even have to be qualified?
Who makes up these rules????
I think it is a lost cause, trying to straighten out the mess of this school system. No matter what we say, or how we vote, and even if the person put in that seat has the best of intentions, he or she will surely become just as rotten as everyone before them. It is believable that any person cannot be surrounded by that many children, and not chose favorites, and least favorites, but as a professional adult you should be grown enough to over-come your own ignorances and do your job. Leaving discipline up to the principal's discretion is asking for trouble, and saying that the parents have the right to complain is a joke. I have tried in so many ways to be vocal and attentive in my son's education, but in more ways than one have been shut down and push aside. It seems to me the more you try to help, the less they want you too. My child is only in his FIRST year of public school,he hates it, he is sure his teacher hates him, I am sure the principal has her mind made up, and I have complained many times. Nothing has ever came of my complaints, and I am looking for ways out. I am sure I can do a better job at home, with much less tension for my child.
Not only do we need an educator to fit the bill, we need one from out of state if you are looking for an overhaul of procedure. Face it Louisiana, we are spinning our wheels in mud. When it comes to the worst in the nation, we are it. The sooner our schools collectively face this, the better off our entire state will be.
Case in point, I agree with anonymous above who pointed out PHS. I couldn't agree more. Now Ponchatoula and their administrators are more than happy to exclaim to anyone who will listen how wonderful they are. HA! Give us a break, please Ponchatoula High administrators. Us parents know better, and most importantly, our children do as well. We remind them on an everyday basis that being somewhat better than the worst of the worst is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Good parents always expect more of their children. Ponchatoula has stopped dead in their tracks.
We are not happy being first on the spoon when it comes to scraping the bottom of the barrel. But obviously Ponchy administrators are. You try to single yourself out as something special, when in reality you are walking on the same ground everyone else does. Ponchy admins - take note - you do NOT walk on water. Also, please spare the public as though your family name is something important. Just as you may think you know us and our families, and JUDGE us accordingly, WE KNOW YOUR FAMILIES, TOO. It's just that most of us were raised a little better than to judge you for it. You should be grateful we don't judge you because of your children, as you have judged our own.
If that is what it takes for you to wake up and face the day Ponchy administrators, to set yourself aside from other Louisiana schools as though you have something to be proud of, then I can't help you with your personal problems. What I can do, as a PARENT who loves and cares where my children will be in the future, the best example I can give my children is to take a good look at the admin of Ponchy, and their self proclaimed righteousness. The reality is, they are nothing to brag about. But go on and keep telling yourself they are, if that's what it takes to get you by. For my children, saying it doesn't make it so. Reality does.
What is the relity? Take a good look at public response so far on this forum. And before you start saying that it's the parents fault for not engaging their children, you had better get your facts straight first. My child, a former PHS graduate, now uses his experience in Louisiana Public schools in the state of Vermont as an example of what not to do. If I had to do it all over again as a parent, I would have stayed in Hammond and kept my children in Hammond High School. Maybe not every student at HHS is an honors student, but in my experience the administrators gave credit where credit is due. They did not delude themselves into taking credit for things they did not deserve. THAT alone is Ponchy's biggest mistake. That is through no fault of the students who strive to become the best they can be. That is the fault of Ponchy admin who stopped striving to be the best they could a LONG TIME AGO, as though their reputation alone would do the work for them. Sad.
Overall, the best candidate should be selected for the job whether it be an educator or a noneducator. The criteria of selection, if well defined and followed, will aid in that decision. A person does not have to be an educator to have been involved in the aspects of education or knowledgable of the education processes. The Tangipahoa Parish School Board needs a strong leader with business management skills that will continue to work toward inprovement of the current system. Change does not occur overnight. By definition, a superintendent is "one who has executive oversight and charge" per the online edition of Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
In reading the other comments that have been left, most stray away from the question. The perfect candidate would be an educator with a solid business/people management background. Will this person apply and make it through the hiring process?
To Anonymous who has a daughter now involved with VT Public schools....That is EXACTLY what I was saying in my statement about northern schools, and how much better they are. They DO RESPECT the children and the parents who want to be a part of their childrens school lives as I did. Parents could go see their children at ANY time to make sure things were ok. They could just walk in and help out the teacher whenever they wanted too. The teachers loved to interact with the parents, and loved it when parents wanted to be involved in their childrens education. But that was NEVER the way it was here at PHS. Not in any schools in the Tangi/Poncy district that I delt with!!!! Right from elementary through the high school. Very few teachers cared that I delt with. Only one special one in all the years my kids attended. And that was a fouth grade teacher, who no longer is their. She was also the dance team instructer for DC Reeves at the time. Now she was wonderful, and her love of the kids showed through and through! Once out of how many???? Ridiculous!
You see, VT is where my kids were originally from. They were born there, and attended public school in both the Chittenden and Addison county schools. (Burlington, Starksboro, and Huntington area.)
When illness with one of my parents made it impossiple for my family to remain in VT, I had no choice but to move to this awful school district. I was HORRIFIED by the way this system treated my children. But I had no choice in the matter because of a very ill father, who I later lost. I then had to stay to take care of my mom. She refused to move back to snow country...LOL.
When we moved here, we were horribly upset by the way Tangi schools treat the children and how parents, who wanted to be part of their childrens leaning experiences were pushed away. I was SHOCKED the first time I attended one of the elementary schools to visit my youngest child and the school refused to let me go to their classroom. Only with the teachers permission made ahead of time, and with a visitors pass. Why?? What do they want to hide from us parents?? The way they talk and treated my child?? And the first time I saw those horrible signs about no guns or weapons, I almost cried right then and there. To know that this was a whole different world for all of us, and that was not in any way safe, to see signs like that made me and my husband sick! That would NEVER happen in VT, or OH. You have rights up north and the kids get a wonderful education that is full of love and respect from the total school systems. Wonderful memories, and a heck of a better education.
I am not saying all schools up north are that wonderful, I am only saying about the schools that I personally delt with. But of course if you listen to the news, or read the paper, you can see for yourself the Louisiana is at the very bottom of the barrel regarding the schools.
As a student myself who attended Ohio school systems, and later graduated from Champlain college in Burlington vT, I am ashamed to say that my children were moved here to this backwards, lowest ranking educationa; status state. I regret it more than I can ever express!!! But with my father so ill at the time, I had NO IDEA, that my kids were in for. Especially what I and my husband call abuse at PHS.
From day one here in the school sytem, right on the bus for crying out loud, when the bus driver treated them horribly, until the day I pulled two of my three children out of the Ponchy school system, it was a living nightmare. Nobody will listen to your concerns, and you NEVER get return phone calls from teachers or administrators. I think only one time right before I pulled my last child out of PHS did I EVER get a return phone call and that was from the so called displinarian to tell me my daugter was suspended for holding her boyfriends hand. OMG...What a joke. She had a choice of free labor at the school during the weekend cleaning the grounds, bathrooms, lockers, ect, or suspension. I told him to you know what with that, and pulled her out after the principle pulled her hatred and abusive verbal attack on my child and her boyfriend who WE APPROVED OF BY THE WAY! They are now engaged, and both were pulled out of that school. Teens aren't allowed to be teens. I feels like a boot camp ran school instead of a public school system. Kids are not allowed to be kids. No wonder kids eventally get out of hand there. No life at all at the school. Only rules, rules, rules, and being yelled at, threatend, ect. Not the way I want my child raised!!!!
Even if you want to try to reason with any of them there, you have to physically go to the school, and you STILL can not talk to whoever you need to talk to. The receptionist or student working the front will take a message for you, but still NO return calls. You can never rectify the wrong that they continued to submit my children too. I was sick at heart!!! I finally had no choice but to quit my job, cut way back on what bills we could just so we could afford for me not to work for a while to educate our children. If not, they would not be where they are today.
At least I was able to save their education, and they are doing wonderful now because both my husband and I would not take it anymore!!!!!
I grew up also up north, and know the differnce in education, and the way a teacher, administration, ect should treat a student. Tangi needs to look into some of the ways school systems are ran up north. Maybe if they really listened, they can climb out of the hole they have made this educational system into to in the nationonal ratings.
I had such a wonderful education. More than my kids did at PHS that's for sure. If it wasn't for me and my husband taking matters into our own hands, my children would not be as educated as they are now. It was us, the parents who educated them, not PHS! And they were educated without ridicule, and with lots of empathy, love, and of course respect for their feelings.
Thank you for sharing your views on the subject. It helps to see other parents who feel the same way as my husband and I do. I have met sooooo many wonderful parentsout there who are so tired tired of the way things are ran here at PHS, and in Tangi in general. Why doesn't somebody do something to help this situation??? I just pray that whoever ends up being the new Superintendent reads some of these blogs, or listens to parents, and makes some major changes for future generations to come. Maybe this will be the beginning of a brand new start to help pull LA out of the lowest ranks of the US for education. I can only continue to pray for all the current and future students.
Tangipahoa Parish needs a kick start in the right direction when it comes to education. I'm an English major and attended high school in Jefferson Parish. When I came to Southeastern, I saw firsthand how behind some of the students were when it came to English and their writing. If a students English is bad, I can only imagine how they turn out when it comes to other subjects. When it comes down to it, aren't the children's progess and education more important than whether the superintendent has a degree in Education. If a person who does not have an Education degree can do well for the school board, then by all means, give them the job.
As I understand it and in spite of statements made to the contrary, several other parishes have hired superintendents without educational backgrounds and NONE of them have been successful. If it's been tried without success, why would we even consider it?
I agree that if the School System is going to have job qualifications for its other positions, they should lead by example and abide by the qualifications already in place for the superintendent's position. If they change the rules for this position, how can they be held accountable for hiring qualified teachers in the future? Perhaps they will want to change the rules for that too.
Let's keep the main thing the main thing: What is in the best interest of our students? I believe students will benefit most from choosing someone who is not only academically qualified, but is chosen by the School Board setting an example of integrity and holding to their own policies in the same way as they expect their employees, parents and students to do.
This shouldnt be any surprise that the new superintendent is not required the proper education. I mean, hell - we've taken parents out of the school we've taken God out of the school - it is only proper that we should take out the very fiber that was intended for our schools. AN EDUCATION.
It figures. If the rest of the nation has been stifling a laugh at us Louisianians, they may as well bust a gut with laughter now. But hopefully the rest of the nation can read this blog and easily see - there ARE parents who DO CARE about EDUCATION in LOUISIANA - EVEN IF THE SCHOOL BOARD DOES NOT.Way to go, school board. How proud you must be.
Wait a second. Since this blog also has another issue concerning God Warrior Marguerite Perrin, is that what this is all about? The school board is trying to get a reality show out of this? Must be. Because that's the only thing that makes sense from the decisions of IMBECILES. I doubt elected officials care much about this blog though. After all, the Saints are playing. And isn't that just cause to throw children to the wayside - the Saints? What a freaking joke. I'm glad the newspaper at least gives the voting public the chance to sound off. Too bad there are many good teachers and students in the parish will suffer though.
To the anonymous and very "unhappy" parent: I understand your experience was less than pleasant. But as an educator in this parish, I don't understand your statement about how adults should "earn" respect. Over the years, it seems that I have encountered "terrible" parents, as well as "terrible" teachers. It all goes hand and hand. I am NOT blaming parents nor am I blaming teachers. I think that there is a serious "discipline" issue in our schools that needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. The new superintendent can be anyone as long as they do something to help us - teachers, parents, and students. I don't want to fight my way in the classroom each day to "WIN" over the students... they should meet me in the middle. I don't get paid enough to do all that! I love my job and I love my students. That is why I continue going to work with a smile on my face - despite the angry parents who would like to see a teacher "fired" or have her career ruined because their "angel" is not living up to their expectations... despite the less than thrilling working conditions... despite the sixty hours of work each week (yes, good teachers work beyond the classroom)... despite the "blame" we take when these tests don't score as society would like... despite the lack of respect our community gives us when all we do is dedicate our lives to their children... despite it ALL! I feel that we need a superintendent that is going to address the needs of our children - that is what we are here for! Help us, help them. First and foremost, we need to deal with the inappropriate behavior that teacher's are forced to deal with each day. Is it right for a teacher to be bullied and hit by a child? Well, this has happened and the child was allowed to come back to school and put in another classroom. Everyone talks about the child's RIGHTS and their RESPECT. Our society has raised a generation of students who have NO respect for authority, teachers, and the whole concept of school... hmmm, I wonder where they learned all that? Don't believe me? Go sit in a classroom.
Another thing - you talk about how parents are not allowed in the classrooms without going to the main office to check-in. This is a SAFETY issue that you obviously have given no thought to before. If we allowed anyone to walk around "YOUR" children, then we put them at risk for predators. You would love if we had an open door policy - until a child vanishes. Then you run and blame us. Bring out the lawyers! Well, it's a double-edge sword. No one wins. Just check-in the office. I have never denied a parent the right to visit with me when they follow our procedures.
STOP BLAMING TANGI TEACHERS! WE WORK HARD EVERYDAY FOR "YOUR" CHILDREN! YES - THERE ARE BAD APPLES IN EVERY BUNCH, BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LABEL OR STEREOTYPE ALL OF US! IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO WANT TO TURN YOUR BACK AND BLAME EVERYONE ELSE BUT YOURSELVES FOR YOUR CHILD'S PROBLEMS. INSTEAD OF FIGHTING AND MOANING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS, TRY HELPING OUT! LET'S ALL WORK TO END THE 'PROBLEMS' IN OUR SCHOOLS.
:) Have a blessed day! :)
I take this opportunity to thank those teachers, administrators and supervisors of this school system who devote their lives and time to teaching our children. I know many times, it is not an easy task, but it is a rewarding one when one child realizes the
concept(s) taught.
I see it as an insult and a slap in the face to all educators, the Tangipahoa Parish School Board members (The Ruling Six) would vote to ask for a waiver to hire a non-educator, knowing the condition our school system is in today. Remember the release of the Leap Test Scores recently.
As technology continues to advance itself, the public has access to information readily, or we can simply pick up the telephone and ask a question.
To the "Ruling Six," there are some citizens who knew what your plans were some nine months to one year ago to hire Mark Kolwe as superintendent upon Louis Joseph announcing his retirement, and began communicating with BESE board members to stop your attempts to get this policy change and a waiver.
We were informed by the BESE Board members, you wanted the waiver, because your first plan to have the BESE Policy (Bulletin 741) changed last year was foiled, and also knowing if you hired Kolwe without a waiver would get you "cited" by the BESE board for not following BESE policy regarding hiring non-educators as superintendents in school districts with less than 45,000 students would cause you to lose state funding.
Only three school districts in Louisiana received waivers to hire non-educators. East Baton Rouge, New Orleans and Monroe, each of whom have the student population according to BESE policy to hire a non-educator. There is one problem. Hiring a non-educator did not work for them, and two of the school districts returned to an educator at the helm of their school districts. East Baton Rouge Parish is the only school district to have a non-educator as its superintendent, but had to hire an education administrator to assist the non-educator superintendent. What a waste of taxpayer money - money, which in my opinion, could have been better spent on materials for the school children. This is a far cry from the 50% mentioned by one of the Tangipahoa Parish School System board members. I say to this board member, get your facts straight before you decide to put your foot in your mouth again!!!
In the event you have not noticed (board members) the citizens of this parish are saying enough is enough. We ain't taking it no more.
Your hand(s) have been "caught in the cookie jar." There is no need to say your intent is different than is perceived now. You are like a child saying I did not take the cookie, but the crumbs are on your fingers and on your mouth.
You will be held accountable.
What exactly is the KICKBACK the schoolboard is anticipating from Knowle, hhmmmm?
There is no doubt in my mind that if the schoolboard goes through with this hiring it is certainly going to cause even more negative publicity for this area. But for once its sure going to be nice for us citizens to call on CNN, MSNBC, FOX NEWS, and any other nationwide news station out there.I want these news stations to come here. I want them to see how a NON EDUCATED man is put in the position of a superintendent of FAILING SCHOOLS. You know whats going to be the best part? When the schoolboard starts their garbage of how wonderful they are, and all the while the public outrage was clear from the beginning. For once, the focus will NOT be on us trashy ignorant citizens of Louisiana, but the attention will be on the the school board that prefers to keep us that way. Like we are supposed to be impressed by the school board or something.
Go ahead. Hire him. For the attention alone - this is going to be hilarious to watch these administrators explain their genius to the nation on every news channel. AND TRUST ME THESE STATIONS WILL SHOW UP. And as usual the good students and the good teachers will suffer. Hire someone with the educaional background. Is that so much to ask? Why yes it is. Because this is LOUISIANA after all. Whats an education anyway?
I feel bad for the teacher who wrote here but I have to tell him or her that shes getting angry at the wrong people. TEACHER - we are on your side. Parents who care about their children always have been. But a school board wanting to pass the buck by hiring an even pooer educated and example is costing my kids. MY CHILDREN ARE NOT FOR SALE. But make sure you speak up when Geraldo comes to town. Believe me he knows EXACTLY where Tangi is: home of the child molesting churches and uneducated superintendent of schools. WE ROCK !!!
To the teacher in the Tangi district who responded to my blog. First of all, in your own words, Qutoe:
STOP BLAMING TANGI TEACHERS! WE WORK HARD EVERYDAY FOR "YOUR" CHILDREN! YES - THERE ARE BAD APPLES IN EVERY BUNCH, BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LABEL OR STEREOTYPE ALL OF US! IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO WANT TO TURN YOUR BACK AND BLAME EVERYONE ELSE BUT YOURSELVES FOR YOUR CHILD'S PROBLEMS. INSTEAD OF FIGHTING AND MOANING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS, TRY HELPING OUT! LET'S ALL WORK TO END THE 'PROBLEMS' IN OUR SCHOOLS.
End of yelling quote.
I think your statement here was totally uncalled for. " IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO WANT TO TURN YOUR BACK AND BLAME EVERYONE ELSE BUT YOURSELVES FOR YOUR CHILD'S PROBLEMS. INSTEAD OF FIGHTING AND MOANING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS, TRY HELPING OUT!
Didn't you read what I wrote in my blogs???? I did NOT Blame everyone else for my childs problems. I DID NOT, OR NEVER WILL TURN MY BACK ON MY CHILDREN,AND HOW DARE YOU EVEN SAY THAT. I DID try to help out, and work with the school. Please refraine from the personal attack and re-read AGAIN what was written. You just prooved what a true tangi teacher is like. Yelling, but not listening, or reading what was stated. Open your eyes and read again.
You don't even know the whole story pertaining to my situation, so until you do, STOP SCREAMING AT A PERSON WHO HAS A RIGHT TO TELL ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT. THATS RIGHT, this is a free country, and last I knew, it was a constituional right. If you don't agree with me, at least have the common decency to respond respectfully. Isn't that one of the problems many of us parents are complaining about??? Did you even ready everything before you spewed your self rigtgious explosion there?? Geeze. Proved a point there didn't you.
Now you know how it feels to be yelled at in caps, and also shows that this is how tangi teachers handles things to do with their care of OUR children. You mention steriotype. Well isn't that what you just did in your blog. Oulining how parents are to blame??? Turn our bcks, and not help??? Hello there, READ MY BLOG AGAIN, and other parents as well.
I am not the only one who feels like this!!!!!
Not all parents are the same just as all teachers are not the same. That is why I said that not all teachers are bad apples in my previous blog that you must not have read, and I even pointed out a spectacular teacher that did care for their students. But the Administration in PHS has a lot left to be desired, and that I have proof of not only in what my childs life was like attending that school, but the MD appointments following the whole ordeal that my youngest was put through. Now that is a horrible thing for a child to have to endure. Medical treatment from what a school did to a child. How wrong is that??? But of course they get away with it again. No wonder Louisana is at the bottom of the barrel on education. It is Horrible. Numbers don't lie. And Louisiana education is in last place in our nation. For crying out loud, doesn't that speak volumns to you??? Doesn't that bother you?????
If you would re_read closly to what was written by me, and other parents on this blog, Many of us have the same complaints and concerns. I am not, and will never be the last parent who will always have a bad opinion of that school district. We all have our own experiences of that place. Many of us have done all we could to fix things, but it cant be fixed because of the "Good ole boy" eliment there.
Re-read our resonses, and seriously think about it. Are you honestly listening to any of us? Are you honestly taking into consideration that something might be wrong here with so many of us parents upset? AGAIN, please re-read some of these compliments. If you are a truly a caring professional educator as you say you are, have some emphathy here. We are not just saying this for attention. We really have been hurt by a lot of injustices. If you are not like what we parents are saying, then please don't take it to heart. God Bless you also, and think seriously about what is going on around your school!! As I said, there a few good teachers there, but it is so sad that the bad ones mess it up for the good ones. Doesn't that hurt you? Can you honestly say that you have seen some injustices and have you done anything about it? If you have, I am sure God knows, and will bless you for it. Also if so, I am sure that you know in your heart that you truly do care about your students and want what's best for them. If not, why?
Open door policy??? Well what I don't understand is why I can not visit my child in school. I went to the office, and asked to see my child. I requested time with the class, with my child, and with the teacher. I DID follow proper procedures. I have a proper picutre ID, and I always tried to be a great parent who wanted to be part of my kids education. If you were one of the few teachers that did allow the parents to visit, good for you. I wish my kids teachers were more like you then.
I voluntered my time on many occasions. I tried to get involved in many ways. I asked to meet with the teachers for confrences, but NOBODY would return my calls. I wrote letters, no response. Now do you call that a professional educational system who CARES about the children there?? I did everyting I could to be there to help the teachers if they wanted any help. I offered my spare time many times to help with anything they needed. I cut up paper, typed out things needed, and whatever else was asked of me. But when I wanted to discuss a concern, I couldn't get the respect of a phone call back, or a meeting. Even when one of my kids was out on medical leave, and was doing all school work at home, we could NEVER get any particular teacher to return our calls with questions regarding an assignment. It was to the point that an attorney friend of mine, who also had many problems with the school was ready to do a certified letter to the teacers involved just to get any help. Now that is ridiculous. I know you are busy, but my goodness, don't we as parents have rights for our concers here??? I work too. Sometimes many more hours than you do. My husband puts in sometimes 80 or more hours of work a week. So you are not the only hard worker here. I also have a two college degrees. So I do believe I know what you are talking about with the long hours, and how hard you worked to become a teacher, but please, read our words, and take it think about it. That is all we are asking here is for a fair shake also.
It wasn't as bad to deal with the teachers in the elementry grades, but the higher the grade, the worse it got.
You talk about respect. Well where I come from, you teach respect by giving it back. Kids learn from what they see. Parents and of course teachers are their role models. But respect starts with the family, and coninues on through adulthood. Well my kids were taught that way. Yelling and threatening does not get you anywhere but make very depressed and confused kids. Not just yelling at the kids. Teachers can not continue to refuse to work with the parents who WANT to be a part of their learning process. That's right, I tried many, many times to be there to help with my kids school. I have made money donations to several causes such as the yearbook when they were short on their budget. Bought adds for the yearbook that I really didn't need, but did it anyways to help. I bought many magazines that the kids are made to sell or can not graduate, which is also a total joke. And by the way, I did not recieve ANY of the magazines that was paid for. But called the office, and never got anywhere with that either. Also, of course any money making project the school MADE the kids do, I participated all that I could.
Thats right, you don't know the half of it, so don't you dare go yelling at me with your cap letters. You are just showing the true colors of that school district. You are a represenitive of them also. That is a great example of the so called respect there towards parents and the children with legit concerns. Thank you for proving my point on that one.
Remember please, this is a community blog with many parents that have legit reasons for being so upset with many educators in the district. This new Super job could make such a differnce to so many families. That's why we have stated our feelings here, in hope that someone will finally listen and look into what is really happening in the schools.
Many of us have tried to reason, and discuss things in all levels of the district, but of course we never seem to get the respect we deserve as parents just as you say you don't get as an educator. Yes, something is very wrong with this picture don't you agree?
We have tried to respect your views, and realize you have one of the toughest jobs out there, but why can't you truly listen to us parent? Not all of us parents are alike, and we should be treated fairly also. Not judged by other parents, but individually. I guess we both steriotyped that one.
YES, my children, in my heart are Angels, just as your children must be yours if you have any. If not, than you will never truly understand the plight we as parents feel. The injustice that should be able to be worked out, but can't because nobody will listen to our concerns. All the way up to the school board.
As stated already, my children have morals. They were straight A/B students. Even when one of them missed many many days from illiness and surgery they still recieved great grades. They never had any fights with any students, did not do drugs, or drink, and never ran around with the other kids at night. Now a couple of them are in their 20's and they STILL do not do drugs or drink. They were taught to respect their elders just as I am sure you see everyday with many of your students because many parents do care. Many parents want the best for their children, and are so saddened by this school district. I am sure you know that not all kids are disrepectful. But because of the bad ones, the good ones are punished daily. This is not a bootcamp. This is a public school. And yes, why was that child let back into the school for hitting a teacher. There is another example of why parents and teachers should work together. That should of never been allowed.
My mom has a friend who has her masters in education, and quit Tangi schools because of the way the administartion works. She witnessed so many injustices, and she tried to step in and it just got her into trouble. She waisted all those years of education because of some of the people there. She hasn't taught in 6 or 7 years now, but is planning on finally moving out of state to try again. Now that is sad and also shows how bad it is.
I am not sure if you realize this, but you stated that you go into your class everday with a smile on your face even though there are so many angry parents and students, but just think of the students that also do the same, no matter how depressed they are at that school. Have you really ever just sat down with any of these parents and really listened. You said you saw parents if they followed procedues, but did you really listen to their feelings and concerns?
Have you ever REALLY listend to the childs side of things with an open mind?? If you have, good for you. That would make such a great step on changing things here. But many of your colleagues in my estimation could care less. That I have seen in my own eyes. Actions speak louder than words.
I totally agree with you regarding the terrible disapline problems on both sides of the fence. That is very true.
One type of disaplin really bothers both my husand and I.
When we first moved here, we were appaled at the corporal punishement in the schools. I don't believe anyone has a right to strike a child. But many parents I know beleive differently, which is their right as a parent. We made sure every year that we signed that paper that nobody would touch any of our children. In many, many states, anyone using corporal punishment would be arrested for assult. Violence teaches violence in my estimation, and this is of course the opinons of many specialists. But of course that is only my husband and my choice. And I DO NOT look down on any parent who choses to do what they feel is right, but I DO believe any school official does not Have a right to touch anyones child. That is assult in my opinion. But that is the way it is here I guess. But there are other ways of dealing with disapline problems. It should be a combined effort between the school and the parents.
Working together the way it should be.
May God bless you, and I truly hope you realize that these are my opions. But it looks like I am not the only one who has the same concerns reading the rest of these blongs.
Thank you for your time and for your opinions on this matter.
I would appreciate your review of my statements again, and be fair and try to emphathize my views as I have tried to do with yours. That is what it will take, teacher and parents working together. It is too late for my children, but please lets start a new slate for all the future students .:)
I have said all I am going to say on this matter in this Blog. I am now leaving it in Gods hands, where it should be. I will be keeping you and all students in my prayers. If I offended you, that was not my intention. My intention is for the school to open their eyes before more kids are hurt like mine were.
I am also sorry for any spelling errors, but to tell you the truth, it is 3:34 am, and I am too tired to review everyting, and edit it. I am sure you understand that one...LOL.
Thank you.
On a side issue: do taxpayers realize they are paying lawyers on BOTH sides of the "prayer at school board meetings" appeal? The costs are already into the hundreds of thousands of dollars; all dollars that won't be used to "improve" the quality of "education", if there is any actually being provided. Every cent spent on this foolishness is stolen from classrooms.
When are the voters going to wake up and realize the school board's first job is to supervise the education of students, not fight over which prayers can be used at their meetings.
Once the Board has managed to teach the basics to every student, THEN they can tackle religion.
Lady from Vermont:
It is spelled Principal not principle.
Go elsewhere if you don't like it here. That is what is so great about America.
Re: anonymous about Lady in VT....As stated in other blogs, I am NOT from VT, but lived there for many years, so please read before you speak. Yes, that is what is great about America, it is a FREE country with a constituion of free speach. All I am trying to do is help the kids.
Yes, I do know how to spell. I have two degrees, but by the end of my blog, I stated it was after 3 am when I was done writing, and was too tired to edit for spelling errors. Please read before bashing. I fellings here just as you all do, and I am just trying to help the kids who live in a state with the lowest ranking in educatin. What is my crime here?? I just don't get it. My children were hurt, and I should be allowed to tell my side of how I hope and pray that any new Super in the school district helps stop all the wrongs that I, my children and others have faced for many years.
Please re- read, and May God Bless you. I am not trying to hurt anyone, just help the kids, so please refrain from hurting me by bashing when all I am trying to do, as other parents in this blog have done is help the kids.
Ok, so let's get a hairdresser to coach the Saints, have a construction worker administrate our local hospital, or have a doctor administrate our city government. ABSURD? Of course, it is. It is irrational to have anyone other than an educator to work in this important position.
Hey, duh..that is the purpose of higher learning - to train for specific fields.
Let's do what is best for our children and our futures. Hire an educator. Why is this even an issue?
Lady from Vermont:
You are so distraught because you think the readers are hating you by bashing you. You spew your venom out against our educational system, then you cry when someone gets upset. Boy, you can dish it but you can't take it. I moved here five years ago because of the Ponchatoula schools, and I have NEVER been disappointed in the teachers, students, or administrators. You post this anger to try to get people on your side, but when they don't agree, you get angry. Somehow, you have at least given us some idea as to how you responded to the teachers and administrators...hmmm...true colors?
Renee - if possible, please start a blog on the school boards proposal to refuse public input at monthly meetings. For readers, the info can be found here, or at the "opinions" tab at the daily Star site:
http://www.hammondstar.com/articles/2007/02/05/opinions/27.txt
I'm upset to learn that one of the elected officials in favor of this "ban" is from my own district. We have some good schools in my small area. I don't want to see them fall even further into the political abyss by this nonesense.
Anonymous above, in all due respect, you may not care for Lady from Vermont, but she still has a voice and has a right to be heard. Like it or not.
I don't think she is showing her true colors. It appears to me after reading her posts, this forum has given her the opportunity to speak her mind that perhaps the school administrators refused her.
This option of banning public input is nothing more than personal choice of board members for their own convenience. I have no doubt much of their decision has come from some of the comments left here. They were not elected for convenience. They were elected to give a voice to the public, parents and teachers in a failing school system. For years, it appears we have swept this under the rug, and have been grateful for the successes our own children have brought forth individually. But as a whole, the "out of sight, out of mind" theory is setting us up for more failure. And where, I ask, has sweeping failing grades under the carpet and playing the blame game gotten us? Continued failure in the schools. And that's a shame when there are GOOD PEOPLE, and GOOD TEACHERS, who deserve to be heard and can make a difference in our children.
Shame shame shame on board members who even considered this option a productive one. Clearly, it has been a long time since you have stepped foot in a Tangipahoa parish school. There are parents and teachers who DO CARE about their childrens future, even if you find their voices a waste of your time.
The Tangipahoa Parish School is so far from reality. They continue to say certain invididuals and groups are giving erroneous information, when in fact, the information given is from their own records.
They (some school system administrators and some board members) treat the voting public as if they are ignorant to what is being done. We are not. We realize the tactics being utilized now, and ask that you stop deceiving yourselves, because you are not deceiving the public any longer.
For many years now, this type of dis-service was done and no one said anything. The public trusted you (board members and former board members who misused that trust and formed clicks on the board), as well as those board members who many times stood alone on moral and ethical principles to do what was and is right for the students as well as the teachers and other employees in the school system.
As a former employee of the Tangipahoa Parish School System, I know firsthand of many injustices done to teachers and students. Yes, there may be some positive things done in the school system, but the bad outweighs the good, and this is unfortunate, especially reflecting on the Leap test scores released last year by the Louisiana Board of Education.
How can many on the board forget it was the public who entrusted to you the welfare of deciding what is best for our children, teachers and other employees, but just as we entrusted you, we can remember we have made a mistake in entrusting at least six of you and are having second thoughts. As we watch the vote count on various issues, the same six always vote in a manner not conducive to the children, teachers and other employees. Afterall, "It's all about the children," you say.
I attend all of the board meetings, and I read the paper. As a tax-paying and voting citizen, I would like to appreciate Ms. Patricia Morris, the NAACP, the Biracial Committee and all other citizens who are standing on principle in letting the public know what is wrong in the school system, and are evoking positive change in the school system.
I commend Ms. Morris on having the fortitude and stamina to stand on issues even in the face of much opposition. I can appreciate her approach, because I have noticed others who have come before the board and used mild-mannered approaches before the board, where they (some of the board members) appeared to listen attentively, and upon hearing these citizen's comments and concerns, voted the way they had planned before the board meeting began.
To the six board members who want to be respected, you obviously have forgotten one simple fact, respect is earned and not demanded.
We obviously made a serious mistake in trusting you to correct years of created problems. Thank God for some individuals and groups who are not afraid to say "Enough is enough."
Ms. Morris, I especially pray continually for you in your efforts to keep in the forefront those things the public need be made aware of. They say you give the wrong information, but I have noticed over the past couple of years since I first saw you appear before the board on issues, everything you said has come to fruition, and I have yet to see those who make these accusations come forth with a rebuttal to refute you, which lets many know you are telling the truth. As long as God gives to you the stamina, continue to have the backbone to stand on the truth and say so.
You, as well as many others who say the wrongs in the school will be corrected, are appreciated.
Ok, so I'm a teacher in this parish and in the elementary schools. I, for one, am a parent and a teacher so I have opinions on both sides of the fence.
First of all, my daughter is too young to even be in school yet. But, as a parent, I hate to say it, but my child will NOT go to Tangi. public schools. Whether or not anyone wants to admit it, many teachers in this parish do not send their child to public school. Most go to private or catholic school.
As a parent, I do not want my child and any future children I may have, be subjected to some of the things that go on in the schools. And, I have to say, I'm not talking about the way teachers treat students. I do agree that there are bad apples out there and that there are good ones. I know of teachers who have visited students in hospitals when they were sick, or they went to funerals when someone in the family had died. I think that we as teachers, DO have the children's best interest in mind. What I'm talking about that I don't want my child to be subjected to is the way that students behave, talk, and disrespect adults, themselves, and anyone else that they come in contact with. I know I can't shelter my child forever, but she will know right from wrong. I will not tolerate disrespect in my house or anywhere else.
As far as "earning" respect as a teacher. I was always TAUGHT to give respect. I'm in my late 20s so I wasn't in school that long ago. When I was there, I would've NEVER talked to my teachers or anyone else in that matter the way some of my students talk to me. If I did, my parents would've gotten to me. I'm yelled at on a normal basis at school for something as simple as telling a child to sit correctly in a desk or to stop talking. Now, do I deserve that? No I don't. When I was pregnant, there was a student that swung at me because I asked him to give me the paper that he was using to hit another child. Not only did he swing at me as if he was going to hit me, but he also threw the paper in my face. He cussed me out by using the "F" word multiple times. Now, do I deserve that? No, I didn't nor does anyone else. However, guess what? This child was allowed back into school the VERY next day. And, what do you think he did the next day? Cussed out another teacher for correcting him. That is what's wrong with discipline in this parish. I agree that the discipline is the biggest problem in this parish. We, as teachers, spend too much time correcting our students. Oh, and by the way, the student that tried to hit me when I was PREGNANT and cussed at me, was a FIRST grader. Yes, a FIRST grader. So, it starts at home. I'm not blaming ALL of the parents. There are good parents out there, but I just wish that there were MORE. I WISH I could get more parental support. The problem is that I have NO PARENTAL support most of the time. I have a parent right now who wants a phone call from me. However, I've called at least 7 times, NO JOKE, and I've left a message EVERY time to call me back and I NEVER have gotten a response. So, where does that get us. NOWHERE.
As far as the corporal punishment thing, it is no longer allowed in the schools. Or let me say this..I'm in a school where corporal punishment was allowed. However, we were told that we are no longer allowed to use it. In my opinion, it didn't help anyway. I've had students in my room who were paddled and 10 minutes after coming back to my room, they were doing the same behavior as before. So that didn't get anywhere either. However, I have many problems with other things as well. I, as a teacher, need help from administrators as well. When a child is put into in school suspension, it is our policy that the child can NOT ride the bus to school and that they have to be brought to school. But, it never fails, a child in ISSP always comes to school riding the bus. Now, in that case, the parents should be held accountable but they aren't. I'm held accountable for everything I do in my classroom. When my students fail, I take a look at what I'm doing. I re-evaluate myself. I truly care for my students. They are "mine" for 7 hours a day and in my eyes, we are a family from day 1. Does it always work that way? No, it doesn't but I try my best.
Open door policy?? I have to say that if I don't call a parent back or don't see a parent, it's because I had no idea that one even called or was looking at me. At our school, parents must set up appointments in order to see their child's teacher. This is to maximize the teaching in the classroom. We want our students to have maximized instructional time. Now, there are exceptions to the rule. If there is something major going on that needs to be addressed, we will meet with the parent, principal, and the teacher. It has happened many times before. Some parents are great and I appreciate everything they do for the child. Sometimes, it's not the teachers fault for not seeing a parent. It's the administration that doesn't allow a parent to go to the room. That is totally out of control of a teacher. I agree, that the good has to suffer for the bad. It's not the parents that CARE for their children and education that we have the problems with. It's the parents who don't really care and think that sending their child to school is daycare. I don't make enough money to tolerate disrespect from a child on a daily basis.
To the parent whose child had to be put on medication, my heart goes out to you. I don't wish that on any child or anyone from that matter. But, as a teacher, and on a teacher's side, I, myself, am close to getting on medication for the stress that is put on me at my school. It scares me to think that I may have to be on meds just because of my job. Does it make me reconsider my job? Of course it does! When I went into education in the first place, I had no idea that it was going to be like this. This is not what I was looking forward to. I was looking forward to that teacher-child relationship, respect that I had with my teachers as a child. My teachers have left and impression on me and that's one reason why I wanted to be a teacher. However, I'm having to reconsider my decision because of stress. It's scary to think that the job I've always loved is hurting my health.
I do look at my parents individually. The problem is that it's easy to stereotype because there are so many out there that do not care. For the ones that do care, I truly appreciate everything you do. Students need parental support in their education. I expect a lot out of my students. Do they always like it? No, they don't. They constantly whine over an assignment that they don't want to do. I've found that many students don't care about their grades or their education. As a teacher, it's very hard to motivate, day after day, a child who is totally unmotivated and has no desire to learn. It saddens me to see this generation and it scares me that this is our future. As an elementary teacher, I'm appalled what some students say or what they even know. Some of the things they do or say, or know, I didn't know until I was older, much older. Truth be told, elementary students 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders know way too much. I never knew what sex was when I was little. It's very scary when a child comes to school and talks about sex and talks about having sex with another child. These are 7 and 8 year olds I'm talking about. If you think I'm lieing, just ask other teachers, or better yet, go into a school yourself. They cuss, cheat, lie, and steal. Now, where do they learn that behavior from? It stems from home. If a child is taught right from wrong in the BEGINNING, then they will hopefully grow up to be respectful adults. To the parents who DO teach right from wrong, I salute you. It just disgusts me when I have to hear all the nastiness.
Our new superintendent truly should be an educator in my opinion. However, they need to remember what it was like when they were in the classroom. I agree with one poster when she said that they need to go back into the classroom and teach for a day. Anyone that isn't in the classroom any longer, needs to try and go back. Many of the former educators probably couldn't handle it. I just hope that whoever it is, will help out everyone, parents, teachers, and students. I have always had my children's best interest in mind and I always will.
I hope I made sense in this post. Sorry for my rambling. I could go on and on but it's late. Maybe if someone responds to this, I'll again respond.
Good night to all and God Bless.
Oh, and one more thing. Today, we were listening to the National Anthem before our Black History program, and do you know what a child asked me? He wanted to know WHY people had their hands on their hearts when singing the National Anthem. Now, that's sad. We can't even say the Pledge or sinc the National Anthem anymore. These kids will not know anything about patriotism. Hopefully, one day, just one day, it will be back in the schools.
That's all for now. Sorry for any errors, it's too late to review. Thanks.
I am proud to say, "I am a full-time parent". I strongly believe Tangipahoa Parish needs and educator/manager as a superintendent. A word of advice, the children we ignore to day will be adults of tomorrow. Let's deal with them now as a community.
Thank you is in order to the individual who wrote such kind statements to the NAACP and others concerning our stance in seeing positive changes happen in the Tangipahoa Parish School System.
It is the endeavor of this organization, as well as others to see the antics of the past abolished in having a school system all can be proud of.
We realize change is hard, but it must happen. We are raising a wiser generation of students, and as the African addage goes, "It takes an entire village to raise one child."
As we older citizens journey onward, let us not leave behind our legacy - our children, that will not be prepared for the future, afterall, it is they who will propel society into the future and we should want them to be prepared to compete in a most competitive world.
To the teachers of this school system, we thank you because we know many times it is not an easy task when you are with our children on average more than they are at home with us. We thank those who have devoted a special interest to our children, and you are continually in our prayers.
When we work together, greater accomplishments can be achieved.
Patricia Morris
President GTPB NAACP
What Tangipahoa really needs is for everyone to band together and give most of our board members the boot. We need to replace them with people who are not there just to give job to their family and friends.
I feel a recall is needed. The school board members are elected as "representatives" of the people but are nothing more than puppets of Mr. Link and Virgil Allen.
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